I’ve been listening to Jordan Peterson for several years now and I know many have discussed in-depth and voiced a strong desire for Jordan to become a Christian, or to confess Jesus as Lord, etc.
In several videos and interviews I’ve seen him sidestep the question in different ways, but in this interview he is asked the question point blank and he doesn’t really dodge it.
Check it out!
I thought this interview was a great one. I’ve never heard of George Janko before, though I think I’ve seen him on Youtube cards that pop up on my feed from time to time. But, he asks some really interesting questions of Jordan, and I thought we could dig into them.
- Why when people ask you if you are a Christian you don’t really answer them?
- “The question is manipulative” – I agree with his assessment here. This is the meaning of most Christians when they ask, “Do you swear your allegiance to the cult” rather than “to the creator?” There are a myriad of beliefs, practices, rituals, cultural norms, and activities that are painted as “christian” but are wholly devoid of Jesus or have any basis in the Bible.
- “I don’t want to parade my virtuous faith” – This is a frequent tendency in Christian circles, especially evangelical ones. Virtue signaling. I’ve become a Christian which means that my life is great, and I have no issues, and God is blessing me beyond what I can imagine. Unfortunately, this is not found anywhere in the Bible.
- “People can derive who I am from what I say and do. Then they can come to their own conclusions.” – This is what Janko concludes: “Judge them by their fruit.” and Peterson agreed. (Matt 7:15–20; Gal 5:22–23; James 3:11–12).
- “Today if someone declares they are a “Christian” how can we know what they mean? Not everyone who claims “Lord, lord,” will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.” – This is very true. I wish the Christian community would recognize this more often. Just because someone says they are a Christian does not automatically make them a brother or sister in Christ. It is defined by our words and our actions together to represent our genuine faith. There are among the sheep many wolves.
- If you deny me before men I will deny you before the father?
- “I’m denying their ownership over my tongue. I do not want people to put words in my mouth.” – And this does often happen. When we say “I am a Christian” it can mean so many things to so many people that unless we define our terms clearly and distinctly we can misconstrue. Recently my wife and I were working in a ministry that we thought we understood all the people involved. Come to find out, when we said “Christian” it did not mean the same thing as it did to others. Wholly different in fact. To us we are saved by grace through faith, not of works. Scripture is the final authority. We are to submit to each other in the church. To them, though, you must keep the Ten Commandments to be saved, you must work hard, poor people are lazy, and the Bible, while a good rule book, it is not the final authority in our lives or in the life of the church.
- “I’m denying their ownership over my tongue. I do not want people to put words in my mouth.” – And this does often happen. When we say “I am a Christian” it can mean so many things to so many people that unless we define our terms clearly and distinctly we can misconstrue. Recently my wife and I were working in a ministry that we thought we understood all the people involved. Come to find out, when we said “Christian” it did not mean the same thing as it did to others. Wholly different in fact. To us we are saved by grace through faith, not of works. Scripture is the final authority. We are to submit to each other in the church. To them, though, you must keep the Ten Commandments to be saved, you must work hard, poor people are lazy, and the Bible, while a good rule book, it is not the final authority in our lives or in the life of the church.
- What do you classify yourself as? If Jesus were to come down would you be His son, or would you consider yourself someone “studying Jesus?” Where does your heart lie? Who is your god?
- Peterson, I think, handles this question quite well. He responds with, “What do you think?” This is what Jesus did when asked by the authorities and disciples (Mark 10:18; John 10:24–25). Actions speak louder than words.
- The next statement the host makes I think is the one that is causing such an issue for Christians when it comes to Peterson. He states, “I think you are a god-fearing man that is learning. Your fruits are from God, but when people ask you say, “Who says I’m a Christian?” and that is confusing.” – While this can be confusing, it was often that the disciples and the Jewish leaders wanted to pigeon-hole Jesus as well (John 6:15).
- Peterson’s response, “I’m trying to find my way.” As for what he is, he would rather other people decide.
- He stated that he doesn’t like answering the question because he is leery of it. It is, in his estimation, an ill-aimed question. There is for him not an obvious answer. It is not simple. What does belief mean? What do you mean by God? He asks the question, “Does belief in God mean you are willing to go to the cross? If that’s what it meant would you still say you believe? Because that’s what it means. So, be careful what you claim to believe.” – This is a very important point because we can all claim Christ but it means nothing if we take up that name in vain.
- Do you not define what category you should be in because you don’t know the categories completely?
- Peterson responds, “I’m useful not being in a category.”
- He states, “I live on the border. I’m a psychopomp, or “a messenger of the gods.” I’m trying to aid people in their understanding of these deep traditions. To do that I’m trying to straddle worlds. So, I’m unwilling to give up that position.” – I think this is profound. I try to do this same thing with the books and stories I write. I’m trying to reach across worlds into an non-Christian ethos, asking questions that are often not considered acceptable to ask in the Christian community. This is why the most criticism I’ve received about my stories has been from believers.
- Peterson describes believe as, “What you are willing to put on the line.” It is ultimately measured by what you are willing to give up. What are you willing to sacrifice? What would you do if you were in Job’s position? What are you willing to die for?”
- So would you, right now, put your life on the line for God?
- Peterson’s response to this question was, “I can’t answer that. It’s too hypothetical.” – This is because, despite all of the theory, the hypothetical situations, and thought experiments we might conjure up, we really don’t know what we would do until we are in that moment. As parents, we don’t know what we would do if our child was dying or if we someone was being attacked. Would we go toward the attacker and try to help or run for safety? Would we really, if given the decision to deny Christ or die, would we actually willingly go to the executioner to maintain our testimony? Many in the church fathers were presented with this decision and, while some did willingly climb up on the stake and helped light the match, many more relented to save their lives. This because an issue in the days of persecution, when a professing Christian saved himself instead of keeping the faith, what should the church do? Reject that individual? Forgive?
- I think it was profound that Peterson said, “It is difficult not to employ falsehood in the use of language. Pay attention when you feel that you are on firm ground.” – It is better to say nothing than to ramble on.
Conclusion
I think Jordan Peterson is provocative (on purpose), insightful, and resistant to the Holy Spirit’s possible leading in his life. On the other hand, God is the final judge. He knows Peterson’s heart. Who am I to judge those who are outside or even one who is on the borders] (1 Cor 5:12–13)?
Until my next post…
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Excerpt from Our Daughter:
“Okay, mom,” Randy said.
“You behave yourself and be nice. You’re lucky to have company while you wait for the doctors.”
The woman turned and started back the way she came.
“The nurse said it would be twenty or thirty more minutes, so we’ll eat quick and be back up here before they take you in, okay?”
“Okay, mom.”
“Sorry for him,” the woman said to Katie as she walked by.
“He’s funny.”
Katie grinned.
As the woman left, Katie noticed the boy moving around again on the bed. Before she realized what was happening, the tiny lump disappeared and she could hear the faint sound of bare hands and feet on the tile floor.
He was low crawling under the beds toward her.
A moment later, Randy popped his head out from under the nearest hospital bed, craning his neck around to look up at her.
“Hello, there,” Katie said.
Randy disappeared back under the bed, the bed sheet draping down almost to the floor. Katie could still see three little fingers pressed to the tile.
“What are you here for?” Katie asked, readjusting her seat in the chair, trying to get the ache in her chest to lessen.
For whatever reason, the wheelchair was really uncomfortable.
“Why are – “
Randy’s voice trailed off for a moment as he looked around.
“Why are you here?”
“I’m getting my leg fixed,” Katie said. “See?”
Randy poked his head back out from under the bed and looked at the leg she was pointing to.
“What’s wrong with it?”
“The doctor said it’s broken,” Katie said. “Shattered.”
“Ouch.”
“Yeah. Ouch.”
“Can you feel it?” Randy asked, able to stay out from his hiding place.
“I can feel it, but it’s not too bad,” Katie said, then tapped the IV in her arm. “This thing is giving me medicine of some kind for the pain. At least that’s what the nurses said.”
“Why are you – “
Randy stopped mid-sentence.
He scooted out from under the bed entirely and slowly crept over to er on all fours.
“What are you, some kind of spider?” Katie asked, giggling a little.
“What are you?” Randy echoed.
He was now only about a foot away from her chair and sat there, his legs folded up under him, gawking up at her.
“What are you staring at me for?”
“I’ve never – “
Randy put out a hesitant hand and ever so gently touched her arm.
“Are you some kind of ghost?”
He looked around again.
“Are you – ”
He leaned in, talking in a whisper.
“Are you dead?”
A nurse came around the corner and stopped abruptly, spotting the empty bed in the far corner where Randy should have been.
“Randy Andrews,” the nurse said, her hands now on her hips. “You get right back into the bed and you stop playing around, please. They are ready for you in surgery.”
Katie watched as Randy scrambled on all fours under the beds and back up onto his, pulling the sheet back over top of himself again.
She started to ask him about his question, but couldn’t get the words out before his parents appeared at the door.
Katie sat there quietly, watching Randy stare back at her from under his sheet. She glanced over at his parents and the nurse, noticed Randy’s dad had no hair on the top of his head.
Are you dead?
What kind of question was that?
The snap of the wheel locks being disengaged on Randy’s hospital bed jarred Katie out of the confusion she was in.
The doctor she’d first seen was now at the door, waiting for Randy.
He was his surgeon.
They wheeled Randy out of the room, his parents following right behind, disappearing to the left, heading for his operating room.
The pre-op room was empty again.
Dead.
Are you dead?
What kind of crazy question was that?
The nurse came back through the double doors.
“It won’t be long now,” she said.
“Okay.”
Katie tried not to think about the dull ache growing just behind her sternum.
The nurse disappeared around the corner as Katie watched the double doors to the operating rooms slowly shut.
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What do you think?