The next course I selected as part of my Unschooled Master of Theology program was the KI course, How Should We Live, which is a topical study on the book Christian Atheist.
As a reminder, you can all of my course assignments for the uThM here.
So, let’s get started….
KWL – What I Knew Before Starting This Study?
So, to be honest, I know or knew nothing about this book. I had never actually heard the title before nor really the concept of a Christian Atheist. Now, I do know the concept: those who profess the Christian faith yet they live like the rest of the world. I’ve come across countless numbers of them in the modern evangelical churches. People who are living with their boyfriends or girlfriends yet have never talked about marriage. They have children out of wedlock, they take illicit (or now in my state – licit) drugs. These gentle fellows spend countless hours playing video games and can barely hold down jobs. Or, the more functional lot, those who profess Christ, have ample employment, a sizable disposable income, and yet somehow they’ve never graduated beyond a basic, rudimentary understanding of the fundamental tenets of the faith. These are the people who attend a church service regularly or semi regularly (if their schedule permits) but they have no interest in actually growing in Christ (or even what that means), no concept of sacrifice or walking in the spirit. They live lives that are nearly identical to the lost souls they know or are friends with in their neighborhoods and that their jobs.
But, of these people are separated myself from years ago. These are the direct result of Constantine’s poison – legalizing Christianity and throwing open the doors to the pagans and all others who wanted to have influence in society – they joined the church. Now there is no division, no distinction inside these modern organizations between lost souls and the redeemed. It was only recently, in the last few months, since marrying my wife, that I have agreed to finding a local church in which to join in fellowship with. This was done not because I had any desire to attend or be a part of these kinds of organizations (I find God in the woods, in silence, in solitude, away from these artificial systems), but because it is my duty as a husband and a father to do what is in the best interests of my family. My wife receives a lot out of church attendance, and the child seem to really enjoy the social aspects of it (they are homeschooled so they need as much external interaction with other people as possible), so we attend and are ready to serve. I, personally, do not think these man-made organizations are the church that Jesus is building and they are not at all modeled after the first century churches written about in the Bible. But, the church (individual members) are found scattered throughout these other faulty and broken organizations.
KWL – What I Want to Find Out in This Study?
I would like to find out if I am a Christian Atheist. I would like to know if there is something that can actually be done to cure this malaise that seems to have infected American Christianity. Personally, I think the only solution would be for God to bring persecution to the churches in the US. Until then, those who are truly believers will have no voice and those who are lukewarm or completely lost or worse, will be directing the programs of these man-made organizations.
At first glance, I thought this would be an interesting and provocative book. But after starting to read it, I have quickly soured on its content. It is not a book for me. I became a believer at the age of 17. It was not my choice. It was God’s choice. He made the decision for me. I have been his slave ever since. He had provided me with a great blessing in solitude and silence over the last 30 years, and now it seems he is putting me into ministry in a local assembly where the pastor is actually asking for help. Because there is no one who is willing or able. Over the last 8+ years God has put me through school so I have every credential needed or desired. I have formal and informal training in theology, philosophy, and the Bible. I am told by others that I have a gift for teaching (I do not necessarily see that), and this is what it appears God is calling me to do in this particular fellowship. God help them if it is because they will be getting someone to teach them who has nothing at all to lose. I do not care what they think of me. I have no salary they can threaten to take from me. I have a ministry outside of the church. My wife, the precious gift that God gave me, is in full support of me teaching.
It will be interesting to see if this writer / pastor would consider me a genuine believer, someone likened to a first century “life-changer” or if he would consider me a Christian atheist because I don’t ascribe to a modern evangelical church program or don’t submit under a rulership of elders who are not elders and pastors whose positions are not even biblical.
Pages 11 – 27 of The Christian Atheist
At first I was quite interested in this course. I thought it would be a book about sanctification based on some of the introductory questions. But when I started looking at the book itself, I was a little disillusioned.
I wouldn’t say I consider myself a Christian Atheist. I have met and known quite a few people like this over the last 30 years. I discovered when I first became a believer that my mother, who had been preaching to me for years, telling me that she was continually praying for me, that she really didn’t believe Jesus was the Messiah, never actually prayed for anyone (she claimed she didn’t know how to pray), and really didn’t believe the Bible was the Word of God.
The definition of Christian Atheist in this book is: people believing in God but living as if he doesn’t exist.
Unfortunately, I would say this is about 60% of those who profess to be Christian today. Few in modern churches read their Bible. New converts are trained by the programs in shallow churches to remain shallow and passive so the churches can continue to receive tithes (unbiblical) while not growing at all. This has been the bulk of my experience with the modern Christian church: Christian Atheism.
“Like a recovering alcoholic careful never to take sobriety for granted, I have to take life one day at a time.”
First off, being a Christian Atheist is not remotely the same thing as being addicted to alcohol or drugs. People are not addicted to being lukewarm Christians. They simply are:
1. Not drawn by God to Christ
2. Made as Vessels of Wrath
3. Or, they’re making the choice to love sin and hate Jesus.
“We attended church when convenient – and always on Christmas or Easter.”
To be honest, I really haven’t had that much experience with individuals like this. They are never around enough to really get to know. Most of the Christians I’ve experience are ones who do attend church regularly but still live like the world.
“Instead of preaching messages to bring glory to God, I preached to bring people to the church.”
This is the typical program in most modern churches. Since these organizations are man-made and structured around for-profit corporations geared to produce and market a product for sale, most churches are trying to sell something (sell a lifestyle) rather than make disciples for the kingdom. The concept of a small body of believers focused on raising up leaders from within and sending them out to start new churches in other places is foreign to most modern groups. They send a few missionaries to exotic places but there is literally no plans to split the church when it gets too big, and the main objective for most of its programs is to bring as many people into the church as possible, to make the church (building) bigger and bigger to increase the revenues coming into the church more and more.
Personally, I understand the impetus to write a book like this. But, in all honestly, I think it is misguided. I don’t think we are supposed to be trying to resolve this issue. These people know the truth. They reject it. They have heard the biblical message. But they are no use for it and the word of God can find no fertile ground for it to grow. They are castaways, they have rejected the faith, they have walked away, or they are those that Jesus says, “Depart from me for I have never known you.”
Chapters 1-4 of The Christian Atheist
“Belief isn’t the same as personal knowledge”
But, belief is what God calls us to over and over again (along with knowledge). But, knowledge in the Bible is not “personal knowledge” like getting to know someone. Too much emphasis is placed in modern Christianity on having a relationship with Jesus. We are to not only to believe but we are also to grow in knowledge of Christ (Eph 1:17; 4:13; Col 1:10; 1 Ti 2:4). And this is “full knowledge” not just human knowledge or familiarity. There are a multitude of ways to know Jesus incorrectly. The JWs, Mormons, Catholics, all these know Jesus incorrectly according to Scripture.
“But we know of him second hand. Some of us know God intimately.”
This is the division between genuine believer and those who are operating in the flesh. But more so, it is not those who are intimate with him as much as it is those who keep his commandments. The only way to do this is to be walking in the Spirit. Those who are in the flesh have been yet been called or they would not be in the flesh to begin with. If they were called to mercy they would heed sound doctrine.
“James says that even the demons believe in God, and yet they tremble because they know that they’re relationally separated from him.”
This passage is a complete and utter fabrication. Nowhere does it read that the demons believed and trembled because they did not have a right relationship with Jesus. This would not only indicate that the demons “could” possibly have effective belief if they only chose to have a relationship with him. Now, Origen would agree with the author because Origen believed that demons were nothing more than humans on a cyclic loop, that they were either humans, angels, or demons depending on their level of faith.
We know, of course, that this is not true. The actual passage is, “Even the demons believe—and tremble!” There is no additional section referencing that the demons were out of relationship with Jesus. The demons are who they are, they are the disembodied spirits of the nephilim, the hybrid abominations created by the union between angels and human women (Ge 6:2ff). They have no capacity to ever be in right relationship with Jesus Christ. We can only assume that they will be cast into the Lake of Fire along with Satan and his angels and those fallen angels who are imprisoned currently in tartarus.
This passage in James is not talking about being in a “right relationship” with Jesus but about works and genuine faith. Those who have just works are doomed in their works since these are works of the flesh. If you have faith but no works your faith is counterfeit because genuine faith has works as a natural consequence. James does not say anything here about a “right relationship” with Jesus.
“What God asks his children to do… pursue justice, love mercy, live humbly (Mic 6:8).
This is a frequent trap that most modern Christians and especially pastors fall into. They are quoting the OT as if we are bound by the Law. Paul makes it very clear, we are no longer under the Law of Moses, but the Law of Christ. We are under grace. We have liberty in Christ from the Law. We are no more bound by Micah than we are the 10 commandments. This does not mean we will not fulfill both in Christ, but that it is Christ that fulfills them through the Holy Spirit in us. The Law of Moses was a teacher and a convector for the Israelites and the rest of the world before Christ, but now it is the cautionary tail as our example. It is important to learn about the OT, to become familiar with its lessons. But we are not bound by it. The best the pastor could do in this situation is find an equivalent passage that teaches the same thing in the NT. If he can.
“A relationship with God naturally will flow out in daily attitudes and actions.”
This is not necessarily or automatically true. One can have daily attitudes and actions that are purely fleshly even though they might be moral and ethical and might mimic closely the attitudes and actions of a genuine Christian is who is born again and has the indwelling of the Spirit. But if they do not have this indwelling there is nothing else they can do. They are wasting their time. If God the Father has not first drawn them, they are not able to come to a saving knowledge of Christ regardless of how hard they might try to do so. What this pastor is missing is the initial draw from God. It is not the choice of the individual human. He has no choice. He must be elicited from God, he must be invited to join. Once he receives that invitation, then that individual begins to desire to do those actions and have those attitudes (and changes to them) not because they are objectively right to do or think, but because the spirit within them is giving them the desire to do so. “It is God who works in your both to will and to do for His good pleasure” (Phil 2:13).
“If I didn’t make an effort, we’d never really know each other. We need to make an effort to get to know God.”
This is the same kind of mistake that modern evangelicalism makes today. They mistake relationship for salvation. Our salvation is not based on a mutual relationship between God and ourselves, with give and take. It is entirely based on a one side desire of God to include us in what he is doing. Those who are genuinely saved are vessels of mercy. They can not resist the predestination and calling of God.
In my experience (and this is mine alone and I speak for no one else) I have not had to make any effort in my relationship with God. I’ve not had to put effort into pursuing God. The things that I do to seek after God have in all things been a desire he has put in me to desire after those things. I don’t effort my pursuit of God, my desire to do things that God wants me to do: he does all of this for me. I do not study the Bible nearly every day, study the Bible with my wife in the evenings, study the Bible with my children in the mornings, and volunteer to teach Sunday school at church because I think it’s what’s God wants me to do and I’m putting effort into my relationship. I don’t have to put any effort into it. God has put that effort in me to want to do it and to actually follow through and do it.
“We believe in God, but our lives don’t reflect who he really is.”
These are carnal Christians, those who walk by the flesh and not by the Spirit. What is it that you wish for us to do with them? Placate? Compromise? This is a question I will have to ask my wife about myself: if my life reflects who God truly is.
“What do you call God? The way you address him just might reveal the depth of your intimacy….the name reveals the intimacy…What do you call God? Big Guy in the sky? Man upstairs? Then you don’t know him.”
This concept is ludicrous on its very face. Who professes Christ and calls him these names? Who are we to judge what someone else does? How can we tell, just by a name, if someone knows God? More importantly, if God knows them and if they are approved by God? They said the same of me because I did not attend a modern evangelical church for the last 20+ years. They said the same when I was in fellowship with house churches. They said the same thing when I was in fellowship with modern churches but did not conform to the false doctrines they were espousing. There is no end to people claiming that others are not believers or others do not know God. “To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand” (Ro 14:4).
If you are a woman and the man in your life abandoned you, you might even call God husband.”
This is bizarre and even a little creepy. Again, this is ultimately between an individual and their God. But, this is the very thing that Catholic Nuns have a tendency to do, especially the younger ones. And this would seem a natural tendency. They are women. Female. They are drawn to separate themselves from the world for various reasons and to cling to Christ. He is male. It is a logical leap to him becoming their husband. All the more, Scripture is replete with references to Jesus being the bridegroom and us the bride. But what of men? Are we to likewise refer to Jesus as our husband and ourselves as the bride? This illustration becomes creepy if taken too it’s end.
“Knowing him consumes me.”
Okay. I would agree with this statement. My pursuit of him does consume me. But not in an unhealthy way. Also, I would say, not in a denominational way (though we really do not know ourselves well enough to know how we are truly behaving). Taking up a bagful of platitudes or prepackaged doctrines does not equal pursuit of our creator. Only a genuine, daily walk in the Spirit can do this. Not even just studying the Bible can produce a genuine pursuit, since the church for most of its history did not have access to what we have today in the 66 books. We make a whole lot of Bible study, but have to recognize that this is a recent turn of events to have it not only available to the common person, but to have it in our language and to have a plethora of study tools as well.
“Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” This includes you and me.”
Okay. This in no way means that calling on the name of the Lord is asking to have a relationship with him. This does not automatically include you and me. This is a particular verse that is attached to a particular passage and you have to take the whole of it together, not just carve out what you want. The passage actually says, “if you confess with your mouth the lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, ‘whoever believes on him will not be put to shame.” And “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Key here is, “whoever.” Not “everyone.” I think he is mistaking the everyone for all people and including you and me in that. When in reality, this is to mean whichever, whoever, meaning those who do will be. Not everyone will do so and that includes us.
“God wants your obedience, but he wants your heart even more.”
This is blatantly incorrect. He wants both. But he has designed us in a way to get what he wants from us before he even started. He “works in you both to will and to do for his good pleasure” (Phil 2:13). “We are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them” (Eph 2:10). Lastly, “your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, the days fashioned for me, when as yet there were none of them” (Psalm 139:16).
“I believe in a good God who takes a personal interest in all of us.”
“One off my heroes, Billy Graham.”
This is a serious problem. If Graham is a hero you are following the wrong people. Graham was a universalist, believing that everyone would be saved through their own religion, regardless of one’s believe in Christ. The same is true for C.S. Lewis. This is impossible given Jesus’ statement in John 10:8ff.
“Some pray for their favorite sports team to win, all the while forgetting that someone on the other side might be praying the same thing.”
This is likewise a particular problem in evangelicalism. Mixing the sacred with the secular. A better way to describe it is mixing the spiritual with the worldly. I stood in a group of “believers” one day after the service as they discussed the sermon and God, etc. The excitement level in their voices distinctly changed when one young woman brought up the “game.” All discussion of God immediately fell away and changed to whichever player was doing well or what the team should try next. I quickly lost interest and walked away. If sports is important enough to contend with God on your particularly selected day of rest, there is an issue here. Praying for a sporting event is ludicrous.
“Three years after starting life church…we were still turning people away….the building was too small.”
The building was not too small, the church was too big. I reference the people gathered together. The church is not modeled in the Bible as a megachurch, except for a few places in the gospels when Jesus was on earth. The next time he will be on earth the whole world with gather to worship him. But the church viewed in Acts and especially the pauline letters is one of small groups, typically in homes or possibly even in business, certainly in buildings that were used for other purposes. The church is not to be “asset” driven. It is to be spirit driven. Once you grow too great to fit in a home, you should split and continue the organic growth, not focused inward.
“The leadership of our church devoted time to fasting and prayer, asking God to help us raise enough money to build a larger facility.”
This is profoundly unbiblical. This is not the model of the church or of church growth in the Bible.
Chapters 5-8 of The Christian Atheist
“begged God for a spouse, but you’re still alone.”
You should count your blessings if this is the case. God is sparing you every moment you are alone from being in a relationship with a wrong person. He is also teaching you. He is teaching you to trust him. He is teaching you to learn to be content even if you are not in the perfect circumstances (i.e. like being alone).
As a believer, I felt this way for many years. All through my 20s I thought I was being punished. I couldn’t figure out why I couldn’t get a woman to love me enough to marry me. I couldn’t figure out why I kept driving them away. It was not until God gave me the desires of my heart or the literal desires of my flesh, that I realized how grave my requests were. My first wife was a blessing and a curse. She taught me exactly what I did not want in a wife, in a mother to my children, in a lover, or in a friend. I learned a great deal of patience through suffering during those first five years. Then God, in his incredible mercy, he released me from that vow. He gave me my freedom and my single life back and the joy I knew as a single man, more importantly as a celibate man, I could not count anywhere close to the preciousness of gold or silver.
I cherish still those memories, that time that I had a single man focused on God and the good gifts he gave to me (and still gives to me because of that time). I did not run headlong after women after my divorce. I did not resolve to become something I was not to attract them. I had no desire to pursue them or to be pursued by them. I had no desire for their company because it could not compare to the company I had with my God. I always found it perplexing, those who were burdened to marry or to have a spouse or who would rather be in a terrible relationship with the wrong person than to be alone. I did experience this kind of longing for the four months that I pined after my second wife. I did not know who she was, what her name was, where she lived, or even if she existed. But I could feel doing those months a love God had given me for her that was truly terrible and soul crushing. I remember praying for her at night during this time, just asking Jesus to love her and provide for her and protect her since I was not able to do so myself. I could not understand his plan, why he was keeping us apart if he was bringing us together. It made no sense. Of course, this was my eagerness, my anxiousness, and my impatience. I believed God would be true to his word (I wasn’t sure how, but that really didn’t matter), but I didn’t understand and couldn’t appreciate why he was taking his time with it.
Of course, I had no idea that my future wife was coming off of a 9 month trip of being technically homeless with 10 kids and a few hanger’s on. I had no idea that they had just moved into the house we currently live in, that she was just getting her feet under her, and that he was most likely preparing the impatience and instability of the hanger’s on so when I arrived on the scene they would be prompted to move. It likewise set in motion living situations that were untenable for others who would attempt to take advantage, and this allowed them to be in the perfect position to place things in perfect order so we would be blessed despite the chaos and mayhem.
I still don’t really know why God waited 13 years to bring me a wife. I know for much of that time I did not desire to have one (that might have had something to do with it). But I did not desire to have a wife last March when he told me one he was bringing to me. I needed to prepare. He has a way of doing that and this comforts me. I know now that God has a plan for my life. And I know now that he answered my prayers exactly as I had requested in the wife he brought me. Some things I did not have to pray for. I did not have to pray for the number of kids she would have (all from adoption). I did not have to pray for moving back to my home town (where she lived). Yet, despite all this, even though these could have been hurdles for me to step into and accept in order to be married, they quickly did not materialize. Most of the children are grown and will be out of the house within a few months. We will have only five by this summer living with us. We are, by my wife’s unmolested choice, moving back to the coast. My house is going to be useful. My lake property is going to be useful. My car has already proved immensely useful. This marriage is truly by the hand of God.
I also know that I can just as easily be alone. If I were to lose my wife tomorrow, I will be able to go on. I do not want or wish for this. But I know it to be true. I would be devastated. I would be emotionally wrought. But I would live. And I would not curse my God in hopes that I could then die. I would live on, if not for the children, then for my wife’s memory, knowing full well that I would one day see her and be able to hold her and talk with her again. This time, God has put the hooks in deep with this woman. I can feel it. But I know it is God who has done this. And it is good. She has been an unimaginably good gift in my life. But I also know he did not have to do what he did.
“God was a man for a time, so he knows exactly how we feel.”
This is an inaccurate statement. Jesus was not a man “for a time” to intimate that Jesus is no longer human. This would negate the price Jesus paid to save us. He became man. He will forever be man. He will throughout eternity be like us, having gone through all the things we’ve gone through, having died, gone to Hades, been resurrected by the power of God, and now sits at the right hand of the Father ready to judge the living and the dead. He will be forever the God-man whose sacrificial offering was pure enough, was righteous enough to save sinners and bring dead men to life.
“I’ve never been closer to God my whole life than when I was in p ain.”
This is a wholly and rightful saying. I’m never closer to God than when I need him most. This is not to say that I am not always close to him. But there are seasons and ebbs and flows. But I’ve walked with Jesus long enough to know that he will always be there for me, even when I am being broken, even when I am being trampled by this ungodly world.
“David wasn’t just some guy at my church. He was my wife’s only brother. Losing him was very personal to our family. To say that we questioned God would be a massive understatement. Why would God allow this? Why would God take someone so young? Why didn’t God answer our prayers? What did any of us do to deserve this?”
I’ve never understood this kinds of questions. This was a blessing for David to be taken so young. He never had to experience the pain and lose and brutality and indignity of growing old. He never had to experience even more loss, more pain, more judgment at the hands of this fallen world. These questions show the inconsistency that most modern Christians have today. They talk about God being great, and how wonderful he is, and how much they are looking forward to heaven, as long as they don’t have to go today. If they really believed that to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord, then they would celebrate the death of loved ones, and family, and friends, all the more so if they are believers. Why wouldn’t they? Those who have departed have stepped through to the other side, they have gone before us and have entered glory.
Of course, this is not actually the biblical picture of death (one that is not so often talked about), and it is not the typical reaction of people who lose someone.
I don’t want my wife or children to go through pain while on this earth. I don’t want them to suffer emotionally or physically. I don’t want them to feel loss or resentment. I want them to feel loved, to feel comforted, to feel wanted, to feel loved. But I also want them to recognize that this world is but a shadow of what is to come. I want them to realize that this life alone is not enough. This walk in the flesh is but prelude to eternity. This is not reality. It is a simulation. Reality actually begins at death. It actually begins at the judgment. I can only say that in confidence because of the supernatural intervention I have experienced.
“This was a decision based on my choice to obey Scripture,”
I am skeptical that we even do this. Do we actually “obey” Scripture, or does God give to us to both will and do that which Scripture says? I know from my own personal experience (which speaks only for myself) I do not do the things of God because I ought to do them. I do them simply because the doing of them springs up out of the spirit that is within me.
“One Christmas, when I was visiting my parents, I decided to write Max a letter expressing my forgiveness”
Yes, I experienced a similar letter from my oldest step-daughter. After spending five years as her step-father, after having lived with them, took care of them, provided for them, educated them, disciplined them, I received an email from her that stated 1. I was responsible for everything that was wrong in her life. 2. She was big enough to forgive me for all of it. 3. Nothing that happened between her mother and me (or who her mother was or how her mother behaved or even treated her or how she was raised before I married her mother) meant anything. Everything was simply my fault. All the lies (she never qualified this so I’m not certain I know what she is talking about), everything that caused her harm was my responsibility.
But, she forgave me in her great magnanimities.
Most letters like this are not selfless. They are dressed so. But really they are selfish attempts to garner some psychological end. I knew then that there was nothing to say. She was not seeking a relationship with me. I’m not sure really what she was looking for, to be honest. It was just her nice way of condemning me. I suppose. She can have that if she needs it. Before my God I stand or fall.
“I believed that this was just the way I was made. I’m Like many other Christian Atheists, I believed the lie that I could n’t change.”
I think this is a lie as well. The idea that if I think I am made so that this means I’m this so called Christian Atheist. The problem here is the issue of a requirement of change. What if I don’t think I need to change? What if I actually derive benefits from the way I am? From my disposition? There are also benefits to being a so called workoholic, too. Likewise, to consider workaholics (if that is even a word) to be compared with a chemical dependency like alcoholism is a laugh. This is first world, modern Christian drama camouflaged to convince first world modern Christians that they actually have problems (which they often do not). They often do not suffer at all for their faith. They often do not have to pay any kind of actual cost for their faith.
“Christian friends close to me are mastered by something as inn ocent as caffeine. People around the world depend on alcohol or drugs just to cop e with daily life. Some can’t stop gambling. Others can’t stop spending. Many can’t stop lusting. Still others can’t stop eating.”
Again, most of these are not actual issues. They are lifestyles. They are not addictions.
“They’re convinced that they’ll always have a negative attitude.”
It’s not that I’m convinced I will always have one, but I am convinced that my negative attitude is a natural and healthy response to the abysmal behavior of those around me. People in general are some of the worst creatures on earth. Throughout my life, it has been other people who have hurt me, condemned me, and especially those in the church. A negative disposition is not uncommon.
“Addictions are idolatry”
I disagree with this entirely. I think if you are considering watching sports an addiction, I suppose. But I would never define it so. Addictions require a physical component (chemical). Video games maybe can be addictive. But you cannot have a video game addiction. You cannot have an addiction to pornography. It can be addictive. But these two are not the same thing. You are not chemically dependent on porn. Food, on the other hand, especially in the modern age in which we live, does carry a heavy chemical component, especially with the ingredients they include in modern processed foods. But you cannot be addicted to work. To bad behavior (affairs, etc) or even sex. I think this is a cop out.
“Good set, Groesch.Good burn. You’re the man.”
This story epitomizes why I do not want to read this book. It is only a self-absorbed, egotistical, vain, and shallow individual who would make a statement like this while they are working out, and more so someone who would put the story in a book about Christian Atheism. I so much despite this and wish you would allow me to choose another book altogether.
“Do what you can, and trust God to do what you can’t”
It actually does not say this. It says to not lean on your own understanding, but to trust in God completely for everything. I’m sorry but it does not say anything about doing what is wise in our own estimation, since this is against God. We can never effort favor from God. It can only be a finished work of the Holy Spirit working through us.
“I won’t sacrifice my family on the altar of ministry.”
This is an idol. This person is making the choice to draw a line before God, that he can go this far but no further. This individual is refusing to surrender everything to the Lord. He is disobedient. He is unrepentant. What if God calls him to forsake all for him? Is he really going to say no?
“Amy had battled chronic infections for years and was starting to get better.Then she suddenly got wo rse—much worse. Even more worry.”
Yes. I can understand this fear very well. It is ever present. It is all consuming. It brings tears just thinking about it. Just to let it in, to give it even just a little air is to render me ineffectual and incapable of sustaining myself. But I have had to recognize that God gives and God, he takes away. I am not to hold on too tightly to any one thing or any one person, for I am to serve my king and my God first before all. May his will be done.
“The other shoe’s about to drop.”
I think actually this is a very good strategy to think of and plan for when planning anything important. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst. It is not so much about worry or fear, it is about managing risk.
“What if some people spend eternity in hell because I didn’t clearly present the gospel message?”
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of God’s sovereign grace and mercy and predestination. If we obsess about needing free will, we will take on to ourselves more than is required. It is God doing a work through us. If an individual is a vessel of mercy, then God already has a plan. He already know when and where and by who or what he will be saved. He has known this and everything that individual person will ever do before they were ever even created. He counts every hair on our head. Our salvation is predestined. We are called. We are sanctified. And we will be glorified for the Holy Spirit is our seal for the day of redemption.
“It was a serpent that seduced all of mankind into the fall, after all.”
I laughed when I read this story in the book. I’m not certain how a man can be afraid of snakes because it was a serpent that seduced all mankind into the fall. For one, he didn’t seduce, he deceived and that only one individual, Eve. That is made pretty clear in various places throughout Scripture. Second, it was not a “serpent” that is clear. It might be serpent-like. It might be referred to as “the serpent.” But the rest of Scripture must be taken into account when considering the meaning of this passage as well. It was not an actual snake, but a supernatural being. Maybe it resembled a snake. Maybe it reminded them of a snake. Maybe the entire race of supernatural beings known as cherubim are snake like beings. We don’t know with any kind of firm understanding. What we do know from the rest of Scripture is the serpent or the devil is also known as Satan and the Dragon. He was a Cheribim, an arch-angel, the greatest of the angels most likely, and very beautiful to behold. But he wasn’t merely a snake and there is no reason to be fearful of the mortal creatures known as snakes.
“there’s really nothing you can do about a nonexistent worst-cas e scenario.”
This is completely incorrect. There is a great number of things that can be done when in the planning process. In fact, it is the wisest thing, when confronted with a situation, to hope for the best, but plan for the worst. If you plan for the worst case scenario, you are prepared and remain agile and fluid, able to respond more appropriately than if you had not planned for any kind of expectation at all or just planned for everything to work out great. Minimizing negative outcomes, managing risk appropriately, is a wise strategy.
“So you’d like to get married. Have you left the house? Talked to anyone of the opposite sex…ever?”
Part of me agrees with this idea. But, the idea of marriage is so fraught with deception, lies, and danger that I could hardly encourage anyone to, of their own accord, go out into the world and actively seek a partner for marriage. Instead, I would suggest the following advice.
1. If you are married, remain married and live on your knees in prayer to God that he will transform your spouse, you, and your marriage from the inside out.
2. If you are single, remain as you are. Embrace being single. God certainly desires you to be single right now in this context of your life, so embrace it for awhile. He might just bring you a wife out of the blue one day, so you need to not only be grateful for your singleness while you have it, but also learn from it. Don’t throw the lessons away that God is trying to teach you.
3. Do not ever settle. Not even a little. In fact, I would recommend going overboard with your prayers, your petitions, concerning who it is you are asking God for in a spouse. And then be hyper selective in your possible mate. Do not succumb to settling or choosing someone who is not as serious about their walk with Christ as you are. If your relationship is not solid in your own walk with Jesus, you have no business looking for a spouse. Paul says that you should marry if you cannot control yourself, but I say, man, learn to control yourselves. Do not marry out of loneliness or from sexual attraction or any other superficiality, because I can attest: you will be miserable and there is no greater misery on this earth than marrying and being in a marriage with the wrong person.
It carries no greater opportunity to find a spouse by going out “into the world” than it does to remain as you are, where you are, in contentment. God will bring you a spouse if he desires for you to have one. You will run into her on your way to work. You will meet her on the bus or on a train when you least expect it. You don’t have to pursue a spouse. When God called me to the married life a second time, I did not want it, and argued against it. But, over time, over wrestling with him every knight on my knees (actually in my hammock), I witnessed God slowly but surely chip away every objection I presented him. Once he had me in a place where I could plausibly accept what he was trying to tell me (about a wife) I then asked God for a wife that I thought I needed. The kind of wife I would want. I made a list. I poured over that list for months. I prayed about the list. I begged God that he would not bring to me another woman who had to be dragged into the Christian walk kicking and screaming (after saying she wanted to go). I begged him for someone who was truly and genuinely kind and would be kind to me. I begged him for someone who would love studying the Bible as much as I do, and someone who loved books and would love my books and would be thrilled to be a partner in my ministry. I begged him that she would want to live at the house in Reedsport and that she would want to at least camp at the lake if not homestead there. To my surprise, all of this has come to pass….every last request. My wife is more loving, kinder, than I could ever have imagined possible in another human being. She loves the lake property and wants to move there and live on boats. The house in town is being turned into our business. We are talking about RVing together with the kids. We are homeschooling the kids. She loves my books and wants to help me in my writing and ministry and carries my vision in that work.
But, this is truly and genuinely God ordained. It cannot be replicated by human effort. I would never want to try. I’ve seen the difference first hand and it is night and day. I will never seek marriage again in this life. I pray that my wife will be allowed to remain by my side until my death or the rapture.
“This is not a God thought. This is a thought based on fear.”
Worry is based on fear. Planning for the worst case scenario is prudent. God thought is not our thought no matter what we do or how we approach a situation.
“we pray with drive-through-window expectations.”
I suppose if you want to pray like this and expect instant solutions. The issue with this is God simply does not work in these kinds of timeframes. He uses days, weeks, months, years, not seconds, minutes, or hours. Then again, there is nothing prohibiting him from using either or both. God is God and he will do what he wills. Prayer is not for him. Prayer is for us. It gives us the mechanism to transform ourselves from the inside out. It aligns us with the Spirit of God and allows, through our surrender, to align us with God’s good purpose.
“ultimately, can you guarantee healing of the cancer? No. Can Go d? Yes.”
Certainly we cannot guarantee healing. But the same is true for God. He can, he could, but he never does. He does not say he will do this or that. He simply does do it or doesn’t. God could heal each one of us from cancer. He could eradicate cancer. But he so far has not. Cancer was not as prevalent as it is today since the life expectancy has increased due to human medical and technological advancements. In that sense we have actually made cancer worse or, at least, more people now experience cancer than before. That said, it is also true that many, many more people experience life because of those advancements that would otherwise not have. They would have never been born or would have been lost in delivery.
God does not guarantee really anything, other than those who are alive will die. The curse is guaranteed. Then again, there is a group of individual humans who will never experience death. They will be raptured and will meet Jesus in the air and will forever be with him.
“I was constantly talking to God: “I trust you. No matter what, I t rust you.” I felt God reassuring me, “Once you get this fixed, I’ll bless you again.””
Okay. Okay. I don’t really understand where this theology developed. I assume it comes from the merging of Christianity and Capitalism in American culture, where activity and more importantly numbers represents God’s. If the numbers or money are pulled its because God is displeased. If one garners more numbers or more money, God is blessing them. This is neither biblical nor logical. It has no relation to Scripture and it should be rejected outright.
“God had allowed me to see his faithfulness through enough yesterdays to realize that he would be faithful in today, and that I didn’t have to worry about tomorrow”
This is probably the first statement in this book that I can personally agree with. I have known for many years, despite all my floundering, that God has been instrumental in my life. At every stage and every point along the way, he has intervened, has negotiated (not with me but with circumstances and with counterfactuals) all for my ultimate good. He has spared me time and time again. He has inspired me. He has saved me. Has intervened time and again when things seemed bleakest. When I thought I would be devoured by wolves both in and out of the church. When my first wife told me that she no longer wanted to be married. When he interceded on my behalf for my new marriage. When he reached down when I was 17 and plucked me from the muck and mire of my life as an idolater. Even when he told me to prepare for a wife, I desired instead to start a more casual relationship with a coworker. I didn’t want the responsibilities of married life. I didn’t want to be a husband again. But to that relationship he said a resounding no. And then I decided, if I’m going to be married, I might as well get to enjoy the experience and marry two women instead of just one. But even this, God provided through his Scripture to be unsustainable if I am to claim Christ.
Throughout it all God has had his fingerprints on everything I’ve ever done. Truly he directs my steps. Surely he has predestined everything I do and say. He is my God and my King and my Lord. He died for me, that I might be counted righteous in his kingdom. Whatever purpose I might be useful to serve, I surrender to his will.
“Jer. 29:11”
So, once again, we are having to discuss very basic hermeneutics, in the care and handling of the Scriptures. You cannot apply directly a verse or passage from the OT to modern believers in Christ. We are not bound by the Law of Moses. We are not under the law. We are bound by the Law of Christ, which does not work itself out through the sheer willingness of those who are vessels of mercy, but by God’s will and predestination, he calls those individuals to a saving grace in Christ, then sanctifies them through the seal of the Holy Spirit who works in us to will and do for God’s good pleasure. The entire process of our redemption is one sided. It is God finishing this.
This passage in question is with certainty pertaining to the Israelite. It is a prophecy concerning those of Israel who were led into the Babylonian Captivity. It has no direct application to modern Christianity. We can ascertain how God might have viewed the Jews of that time period. But this is not at all the same way he views us who are saved by the blood of the lamb. From what “captivity” will we be brought back from? What place were we carried away from? This is not applicable to the church. It simply is not. It is applicable to the Jews who would eventually fulfill this prophecy and be brought back.
This is improper handling of Scripture and should be avoided at all cost.
Chapters 9-12 of The Christian Atheist
“Lisa and Amanda, faithful members of our church. They serve sacrificially, pray regularly, and give consistently.”
I had to laugh at this list of things these people do to be considered good Christians. Many people are faithful in their Church attendance. Many pray heaping words every single day. Countless “christians” pay whole estates to the cause of “the church.” But none of these things really have anything to do with the identification of a believer or follower in Christ. The same is true about these two women going to this rated R movie. It has little to no bearing on their salvation or their sanctification, save for the possible lack of sensitivity toward other believers, especially those who are weak in the faith and how their liberty by do harm to others. Paul says all things are permissible but not necessarily beneficial. That if we have any rule about these things it is never to put a stumbling block in front of another believer. In this case, we should never be condemned by what we believe. We need to be sensitive to the best interest of others over our own interests. Paul says if we have liberty in Christ we should have it alone to God. It is better to swear off all things than to hurt another. This list he provides is a modern evangelical cultic list identifying faithful followers of his church not the church Jesus is building.
“extremely dangerous territory when we start to believe that Go d’s ultimate plan for us is our happiness. When we reach the final principle of godly happiness, we find a promise of unbelievable blessing. And when we do, we’ll gladly turn off the television, shut down the computer, walk out of the expensive store, and seek more of God.”
I don’t think we can say what God’s plan is for any of us, other than for those of us who are vessels of mercy to received his mercy and for those who are vessels of wrath to receive that wrath according to his good pleasure. I find it odd to say that God doesn’t want us to be happy because that is exactly what God has done for me for much of my life; at least the last 8 years of my life, and now he’s doing it even more so in the last 6 months.
I’m not certain why God has placed me in positions where I would prosper, where I would be lucky, where I would have peace and security and contentment, but he has. He has always provided me a job, a clear conscience, the temperament to be content with what I had, with what I did, and where my life was heading. I can’t comprehend why God did this. It was not because I was worthy. It was not because I was holy or did the right things. He simply chose to bless me with contentment. He blessed me with some level of wisdom, for I quickly learned that the world is a snare and the devil’s enticements, though tempting, carry a terrible and venomous sting.
Happiness has nothing to do with God’s plan because happiness doesn’t actually exist, not in any form we pursue it as. When we think we find happiness, that feeling, that state proves elusive, futile, and transitive. Contentment is great gain. Wisdom is prized. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge and God has granted me great and wonderful favor in this life. I do not begin to know why.
“God doesn’t want us to be happy. God doesn’t want you happy when you’re doing something wrong or unwise.”
This is actually quite incorrect. The sinner is often turned over to the desires of his heart. God gives us what we long for and we are turned over to them and are enslaved to them. These things are addictive (not an addiction) and can be very, very desirous, pleasurable, and gratifying. Happiness might very well be at the heart of a sinful, godless life. Though many if not most seem to self-destruct despite all their sinful acts (sex, drugs, abuse, cheating, stealing, lying, etc), there are still many who live quite comfortable if not decadent lives that are rich and full and pleasurable and quite desirable. They are often quite wealthy, influential, and cater in human trafficking as much if not more than in commodities. There was one wealthy couple on a real estate reality tv show that wanted a house decorated that remarked when describing an upstairs bedroom, “the pole in the middle of the room is here for people who come and dance for us when we are in the mood.” This is typically something done tucked away in a grungy basement strip club with sweaty $1 bills tucked into a guy’s front pocket, but this couple seems to live a life of decadence that is beyond normal human endeavoring. They traffic in people. They traffic in flesh for their own gratification on demand (and live, not on the television or through a laptop video screen).
Sin does not equate to misery. Most sin is quite pleasurable. God does not have it out for the individual who’s life is filled with sinful acts or who caters in misery of self or others, or carries a big stick looking for those who do wrong things. We all do all of these and more. God actually desires us to “lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence” (1 Ti 2:2) and “as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men” (Ro 12:18), and “that you also aspire to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business, and to work with your own hands.” (1 Th 4:11). In my experience, God does desire for us to be happy. At least, he has seen fit to make me happy much of my life. Granted, it has not been in sinful things, but in contentment, in peace of mind, in spiritual things.
“Sin can be pleasurable for a short period of time (see Heb. 11:25), but it always catches up to you.”
This is an interesting idea, but it is not reality. Sin itself does not have a short shelf life. It has quite long tentacles. It reaches out for the long haul and enslaves many people, most people for their entire lives. Sin is also very productive and extremely profitable, both financially and emotionally. It spreads throughout a person’s life like cancer and invades every aspect. It can also remain hidden, dormant, subsurface while the rest of the individual functions perfunctory in the world and even religiously.
While it is very true that sin will eventually catch up to everyone for man is appointed to die once and then the judgment (He 9:27), it rarely does while the individual is alive. This is the deceptive nature of sin itself. It appears to be victimless, and if there are victims, that is suppressed by the personal gratification it produces in the one committing the sin. The individual who produces and performs in pornographic videos becomes engrained with the satisfaction of having frequent exposure to new and enticing flesh. They may even become excited by the uncomfortableness of the newly initiated, and they refocus their efforts into this speciality. They become dependent on the financial gains received.
The idea presented in Hebrews 11:25 I would argue is that this “temporary” nature of sin is that it is temporary only in this life (that it does not continue on in the next) whereas suffering affliction with the people of God will translate into the Kingdom as righteousness.
“his wife didn’t make him happy, and he didn’t make her happy. S ince neither was happy with the other, they divorced.”
I would say this seems pretty typical these days. I’ve done two weddings in my life for people and I wonder if either of them are still together today. Most people approach marriage with the idea that they are to be both physically and emotionally happy during the course of their marriage. They are typically happy when entering into marriage. The difficulty with this is, of course, what happens when the happy feeling or sensation wears off or ceases or things become difficult.
When I married the first time, I assumed, and discussed with my potential bride, that this would be the first and last time I would marry. That I did not believe in divorce. That I would not leave our marriage. I would not quit. She also agreed with me. I assumed that she was a bride that God selected for me and that he would protect me from harm and from deception. Five years into marriage I was informed that she had lied to me. That she never actually believed in a no-divorce marriage. That if two people who were once in love fell out of love, then the two needed to quit and find other people. She said marriage should not be hard. It should not be work. It should be fun and the emotive feelings that were present at the beginning should carry throughout the marriage. If it did not, then it was time to go.
I asked my wife to stay in our marriage and work on our issues, to do so as a family. She refused. She wanted to make an arrangement with me so that I remained in the home and took care of her children (my step kids), but that she could come and go and do as she pleased with whoever she pleased. I again said we either had to go to counseling and work things out or she needed to tell me to leave. She told me to leave and I so I did. Within a few weeks to a month she moved another person into the house with her and the kids. My marriage was over.
It is impossible to build a relationship if the other person or neither person has actually made a commitment to the other. As I told my first wife, marriage is a commitment. It is a decision. It is not just a warm and tingling feeling. It is not romance. It is a decision. It is sacrifice. It is difficult. And it is work. My second marriage has proved to be a completely different creature than the first. This one, my bride I cannot get enough of. I just want to be near her all the time. I think we could sit and talk for days. I know we’ve done it for hours. But, this marriage was put together by God directly and even against my will. I am convinced it was supernaturally arranged.
“discover lasting happiness in the temporary things of this world because we weren’t made to live a temporary life. That’s why we should lower our expectations of this place. Earth is not heave n. It was never meant to be. That’s why no amount of money, new house, new living-room furniture, new kitchen appliances, new clothes, new h air, new baby, new vacation, new job, new income, new husband, o anything will ever satisfy us, because we were not made for the things of this world.”
I think this is true for a genuine believer who is walking in the spirit and is pursuing God. It is true for one who has surrendered much of his own will for the sake of the kingdom, for the sake of his relationship with Christ, because I know I feel exactly like this. Marriage has some nice elements to it. Some are very nice, especially if you find a mate that is aligned with your beliefs and your purposes and she is truly a helpmate to you. Children, likewise, are a blessing to you and to us. But, none of these things weigh greater for me than the end, or desiring the coming of our King. This has been etched into my soul, a longing that nothing else quenches. Long ago I put away a desire for money (and then God gave me some money and then even more money). Long ago I put away a desire for a particular lifestyle, and then now God has given me a life without external labor, but has provided me a life where I can work at home on our home economy and without struggle. He has blessed me with a desire and a gift to write (apparently others think so) and so I labor in fantasy and in worlds of my own creation most of the time, and am allowed to spend inordinate amounts of time studying the Bible and relaxing. He has given me all of the best things: guitar, car, van, soon a boat, soon a house on water (one that is unique and different which I’ve always wanted), a dream for this life to share and work toward with my wife, children I can enjoy and love and raise (which he seems to have replaced the children I had previously that were taken from me). But none of this means anything to me for inside, daily, I long for all things to come to an end, for judgment to pour over this earth and throughout this creation like a burning wind, and for things to be righted once again. I long to live and love my creator and to serve my King. There is nothing else that compares to this desire that I hold in my heart.
“Instead of my normal fifty-nine-cent tacos, my friend got me an eight-dollar hamburger. God is so good!”
God is good. He has been good to me in this way always. I’ve had times in which God has pricked me to give to someone. I once worked at a gas station and a young woman pulled up to a pump at like 2:30am. She did had like a dollar for gas. She was talking to someone on the phone. In that moment, God told me to put $20 in her tank. I did. She stopped and told the person on the phone what I did. I told her she did not owe anything. She handed me the phone and it was her father on the other end. He told me that he had been very concerned for his daughter being out so late and far from home where he couldn’t get to her, and she had no money to get herself home and no way for him to get her any money. He just wanted to thank me for helping them. I told him I just wanted to make sure she got home safe. I pray she did.
This is the fundamental problem I have with the theology of this book. This section is really good. It is talking about God moving through us, but not like the rest of the book that supports the idea that we should be moving for God on our own accord. I’ve come to understand (at least for me) that God moves through us and is building his church among us. It is a complete work of God, not something that we “do” ourselves. When there is something to be done he gives us both the desire to do it and the ability to do it and then even moves us to actually do it. That is God working through us.
“Wherever your treasure is, there your heart and thoughts will al so be” (NLT).
Okay. This is another issue I’m having with this author. He consistently misrepresents Scripture, to the point of adding things into passage quotes that do not actually occur in translations (that I’ve found) and that to prove the point he’s trying to make. To twist scripture is a dangerous thing. He really needs to think carefully about what he’s doing. It’s one thing to do so in ignorance using a translation or paraphrase. It is entirely another to make the scripture say something on your own accord that it simply does not.
“Let’s try a little experiment and ask ourselves, Could even just a little more money make your life better?”
Okay, I can attest. Money does make life objectively better. It makes it easier. It makes problems go away. It does provide a level of security and when you have enough of it it can provide a long-term security like none other. I can remember the peace I received when I had two years of expenses saved. I would lay at night and if a worry about the viability of my work came to mind, it would be easily quieted because I knew, I could trust, that if I lost my job, I would have two years to find another job. I would have two years to sell my house (if I did this I would be able to retire to the lake for the rest of my life).
Instead, God gave me a wife, a genuine helpmate. My job had to go away because she lived 100 miles away. So I gave up my job and we used the 2 years of expenses I had saved on our honeymoon and wedding. This allowed us to do both debt free and then my wife’s “job” affords both of us to receive a check for full time working without actually go to work externally. There is a form of work involved, but it really is taking care of her adult child who really has low needs (but does have behaviors). We have come to a place now where we both want (my wife’s idea) to move back to the coast, fix up my house (that I own outright) for our adult daughter, and then from there build our houseboats to live on at my lake property (where I planned to retire when I was single).
For whatever reason, God literally took everything I was doing and at a particular point, he introduced my wife into my life, let me give up everything that I had worked for only to, a few months later, give everything back to me and more. I am still going to be moving and retiring on the lake. I’m still going to be able to use the house (which will allow us to make a great deal of money over the next 10 years and we then should have enough savings to retire) and this will also allow us to live at the lakes in boats and allow the children (who are orphans) to have a childhood growing up that was much like the one I experienced, running through the woods with abandon, exploring, water-skiing, tubing, swimming, boating, etc. He has taken everything that I put together, everything that I saved, and he has magnified it. Even my books. My ministry. Everything has become better. And in that, he has brought us money as well. It is a better saying, the love of money and things is the root of all kinds of evil. Not the things or the money (which represents things) itself.
“We spend more on coffee and music than we give to our church.”
Giving to a church is not a litmus to being a good Christian. It is simply the result of willful interpretive fraud. We do not stone people anymore. We do not pierce the ear of slaves with an awl anymore. We do not leave the outer rows of our fields for poor gleaners. We are NOT Israel. We are not spiritual Israel. We have not replaced God’s people. We are grafted into the vine. They will be restored at the end and they will be grafted back into the vine the same way we were grafted in, by grace through faith.
You cannot directly apply OT passages or commands to NT believers.
“Jesus said in Matthew 23:23, “You should tithe, yes, but you sho uld not leave undone the more important things”
Once again, Jesus is speaking during the time in which the temple still existed, when the tithe was still in force and so was the Law of Moses. Those days are now long gone. There is no temple. There is no storehouses in which the Jews are to bring in their things or their money. The tithe no longer exists. Moreover, there is no mention of the tithe in the NT. We are not bound to a tithe. There is no storehouse of God in which we are to bring our physical things. There are no priests to be supported. Our high priest resides at the right hand of the Father, awaiting the end of the world, the final individual who will be saved of the mystery, then he will come for us and we will be his and will meet him in the air and will be always with the Lord. In this passage Jesus told them they should pay the tithe that was directed in the Law of Moses. But Paul again and again states in the NT that we are not obligated to keep any part of the Law. If you want to argue from the NT for the Tithe, then it needs to be in correct context for the church, not for the levitical system that was destroyed in 70 A.D.
“if hell didn’t exist, unbelievers would easily reject Christ with no fear of God whatsoever, and believers would be unmotivated to share their faith in Chris t with nonbelievers.”
Unbelievers already rejected Christ with no fear of God. Christians rarely share their faith with anyone. Most of them are not gifted to do so. Not everyone is an evangelist. Only those who are called to be so should do so. We have to stop treating the modern church as if it serves a particular purpose, or that we are all a particular type of member because it serves the best interests of the unbiblical professional clergy.
The reality is, most Christians are not motivated to share their faith in the evangelical model because they are not called to do so by God. Eph 4:11-16 is our model, not what was decided in the 1800’s or early 1900’s in American Christianity, the melding of Christian religion and capitalism.
The honest answer is we do not know what exists. If heaven exists or if hell exists. We have the message of the Bible and we need to handle it carefully and interpret it fully, not with poor motives. But also we need to recognize that if we are not predestined, not called, and not sanctified, then there is no interpreting Scripture correctly, for Scripture is spiritually discerned.
“people want to go to heaven—at least not anytime soon.”
This is another issue that is quite prevalent in the modern Christian context, especially for those who have no cost associated with their faith. If they had not been tested by the fire of persecution, if they have not learned what it means to share in the sufferings of Christ, then they are really truly living in this world and living like every one else. There is no difference between them and an unbeliever, for they view all things the same and they use the wisdom of this world to justify their behavior. Most people are not interested in the end, in the second coming, or in judgment. They are more interested in raising their children, in enjoying their grandchildren, and prospering in the world economy and busying themselves in the affairs of the world. But this is not are call in Christ. We are to consider ourselves sojourners in this world, living in it but not among those who are dying. It is appointed to man to die once and then the judgment. Death will one day be the warden of us all, save those few who are alive when the rapture occurs. People are more in love with this world, with their spouses, with their children, with the enjoyments and pleasures of this world than they are in what is to come. On one hand, they should be wanting to avoid death. But on the other, they should be praying for Christ to return, for judgment, for the end of all things. This will usher in the Millennial Kingdom and that will in turn bring about (after the 1000 years) the final battle when Satan and his angels are cast into the Lake of Fire and then the Great White Throne judgment of all the living and the dead. Only then will we be revealed as the Sons of God and be able to step into eternity. This is much preferred, in at least my estimation, to what we have on earth today (as good as that might be for some of us).
“from what I read about in Scripture—I think I can be a better Christian without the church than I can with the church.”
I would agree with this statement if the definition of the “church” is the modern social organization that is modeled after the human corporation in the west. These organizations are not the church that Jesus is building, but the individual members of his church are often found within those human institutions.
I spent the last 13 years without attendance in any kind of church organization. I did not fall into sin. I did not succumb to spiritual shipwreck. In fact, my walk with God only deepened in its intensity and my faith grew. I came to understand that God has everything in my life and “church” was every day, every moment of my life, rather than just on a particular day or at a particular time. I learned from him teaching me in the quietude of prayer and petition that he wants everything from my life, not just the first fruits or the choicest fruits. He wants it all. The modern church cannot teach me this. The modern church is mired in superficiality, in activity, in shallow theology.
The question is, if one is actually called to it, how can or is it possible for a modern evangelical church to be transformed into a living and breathing church that Jesus is building? Or, it is required that the worker in Christ begin with a clean slate, building anew on the original foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Jesus being the chief cornerstone? I do not have an answer for this. I know my wife and I have been called to a small rural church on the coast. I’m not certain though that we will actually be able to serve there in any meaningful way. I’m not certain that the single elder is willing to give up control to allow other gifts to grow and blossom, or if the other members of the body (if they truly are genuinely saved) are willing to step outside of themselves and actually allow the sanctification of the Holy Spirit.
I’m partly led to believe that the church is not something that should be publicly available. That it should be a secret gathering, one that is not direted outwardly toward the common people, but is one directed inwardly, toward the individual members. That we are called to operate as varied members, Eph 4:11-16, to build up for works of service.
Christians do not need the modern church. They need and are called to the authentic church that consists of the individual members of the body. How this manifests itself in this day and age is unclear.
“For some, Sunday is even a workday.”
This is clearly defined as a liberty in Christ in Ro 14:5-7. “One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.”
Sunday is not a new Sabbath. If you want to treat it as such that is fine, but it is not an obligation for every Christian because of some hyper-sensitive amalgamation of the Mosaic Law being some kind of new Christian Law. Yes, Paul says we should “not forsake the gathering together of ourselves, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching” (He 10:25). But what you cannot do is conflate Sunday service of a man-made institution with this latter passage. This is actually not the gathering together of ourselves. It is a religious service that has both saved and non-saved alike in its mix.
“Who needs church anyway? We can get all the Christian conten t we need from websites,podcasts, and books—“
This is rich coming from an individual who pushes out websites, podcasts, and books. But, to be quite honest, you will receive a great deal more training by doing this than by attending Sunday services at any given evangelical church today. These services are geared primarily for new believers, or for the perpetually illiterate, who do not read their bible, who do not grow in their faith on their own accord, and who typically do not think much about God in between the services itself. Their lives are much like the world they live in.
Because of this, it is true, that anyone who progresses in their faith beyond the milk described in Hebrews 5:12-6:1-2 will discover that they will no longer be fed or will grow as a result of the content of Sunday sermons and possibly even Sunday school teaching or other teaching courses offered at the church. This is simply the reality of this organization that purports to be the church.
“even many Christians aren’t asking, “Which church should I go to ? Instead, they’re asking,“Why should I bother with church at all?”
I would often agree with this question they’re asking. It’s an important one. In fact, I’m wondering if a person is having to ask the question if they should bother with church, if they really should. Obviously, if they’re struggling with this question then they are not feeling called to be a part of a particular church. My wife and I were convicted from the very onset of our relationship that we were being called to a modern church in one fashion or another. We just didn’t know where or in what capacity. Despite today being convinced that we know which church, we’re still not sure that we know why or in what way God is going to have a serve that group of believers. This is the other aspect that really should change in the minds of believers. Regardless of the unbiblical nature of modern evangelical churches, people should not be attending churches because they feel like they can get something out of it or even should get something out of it for themselves. They should not be looking for a church that has entertaining sermons, or a youth group that is really great for the kids. They should only be in fellowship with a modern church if they are called to that church for some particular purpose. As I stated above, unless they are a very new believer in Christ, they will receive very little from the church themselves. Evangelical Christianity is simply too shallow, too one-dimensional to provide any kind of genuine sustenance.
“The church is actually God’s chosen vehicle to meet—through o ther human beings—people’s true needs (including our own).”
This is true, sort of, if the church being referred to is the universal church that Jesus is building. But this is not what is being referred to here. Instead, he is referring to the modern evangelical church, the man-made organization that hs more to do with capitalism than it does with Jesus or the faith found in the Bible. The church is not a chosen vehicle. The church is an organic entity, it is a mystery, it is a spiritual body, that is growing and changing, it has life and it is alive with power. Unfortunately it is being strangled by this thing we call the church that isn’t the church, but is a man-made religion. This idea that the church is supposed to be the solution to the world because of its money or resources is a kind of kingdom now mentality that thinks Christianity (the religion) will eventually christianize the entire globe and then it will usher in the millennial kingdom. This is post-millennialism in essence. It is incorrect.
“We are the church, and we exist for the world.”
Actually the church exists for Jesus Christ. The world is being added to the church with each individual person who is predestined, who is called, who is sanctified and will be glorified. These individuals are being called out of the world and drawn to Christ, to salvation, to be gathered together into the church, into the mystery of the gospel. They will become the bride of Christ, and this fellowship has nothing to do with modern evangelicalism.
“Have you ever considered, What if church really does need you?”
I have considered this at length many times. I spent the better part of 10 years in my 20s trying to be of service to the modern evangelical church. They had no interest in the biblical truth. They were entrenched in their dogma, in their spiritual shallowness, in their superficialities, and most importantly, in their asset driven culture (building bigger, better buildings to bring in more and more people so they can build bigger and better facilities).
I am now in fellowship with a modern evangelical church and I still struggle with the idea that 1. They have no need for me or the gifts God has given me 2. They have no interest in the full biblical message because that message would contradict what is currently being taught there.
Paul explains that we should have “equal concern for each other.”
This is actually incorrect. We are not called to have equal concern for each other, but to “look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others” (Phil 2:4). And “let no one seek his own, but each one the other’s well being” (1 Co 10:24). We are to put other interests head of our own (1 Co 10:24).
This is again a misquote of scripture.
“We’re God’s plan to spread his good news—news of love, grace, forgiveness, and changed lives—to the entire world.”
This is again in error. It is not the church that is responsible for spreading this throughout the world. It is those members who are gifted and equipped to do so according to Eph 4:11-16. Again, not everyone is gifted to spread the gospel of Christ. Only those who are gifted to be evangelists. They bring the people into the church by preaching. Then the church raises individual believers up in the body of Christ based on each one doing his gift according to the way in which he is gifted. Then they send those individuals out who are called to do so. This is how the church is to function.
“Each believer has a gift and a role in the church and in the world”
If this is the church that Jesus is building, I would say this is true. The body is build up to full unity in Christ by the working of of that gift. The church should be discipleship based, not evangelical.
“We’re not supposed to do life alone.”
I would argue this is a stubborn misunderstanding. Only those who are called to seclusion and solitude should remain so. But there are people called to such a state of life. It was a great disservice to the church when the reformation did away with monasticism.
I have lived alone for much of my adult life. I did not suffer from being in this state. In fact, God blessed me from being alone. But that season has passed, he declared a new season for my life, one in which I am again no longer alone, I am married with children. I am called to a modern evangelical church, though I’m not certain why or how that will work in the future. I am called to write novels that hopefully bring non-believers to Christ, expose them to God.
But the idea that no one is called to a life of solitude or silence is not actually correct.
“In parts of the world where persecution is the worst, the church seems to be at its best.”
This is because the persecuted church is tested by fire. This is a supernatural process by which the church is fanned into urgency, into cost. The individual who does not have a cost for his salvation is one most likely who has a shallow faith to begin with. Those in western country typically do not have a cost associated with their salvation, with their faith. If they go the majority of their lives as believers with no persecution they have no context when persecution comes. Persecution also weeds out those who are not truly believers, for those who are Christian for multiple other reasons (family, pedofiles, marriage, etc) will quickly fall away when they are asked to do something they associate with an actual cost.
“What would it take to make my life nothing to me,”
God has done this already for me. It was the betrayal of my country and my government when I needed them the most, when they were supposed to stand up and pay for my medical bills. Instead, they used shortcuts that congress passed to defraud me and the medical community. I came away from this with a utter distaste for life in general. I still do not desire to be here any longer. But, God has also given me a wife and has given me a love to love her with. He has given me three children, and a purpose and a vocation. Yet, despite this, I would much rather we all go immediately to the end and are all transformed into our glorified selves.
Afterword of The Christian Atheist
Couldn’t really find anything in this section that was significant enough to comment on. So I will comment overall on the book.
Overall this book was very disappointing. Despite identifying an actual problem in the church, the author seems to find himself guilty for things that are not actually a guilt and actually fails to see his actual sins. He views his modern day evangelical organization as somehow fulfilling the law of Christ when the modern churches so called are not at all the church Christ is building renders this book a little out of touch and unnecessarily. He has basically created a popular term “Christian Atheist” and has laid it over what would otherwise be termed “carnal christian.” There is certainly nothing new in this book. There is no paradigm shift. It is basically the same old evangelical idea that all Christians are obligated to give their tithe to their local organization to support the non-biblical clergy, that they should do good works (that are through the church so that there is justification to continue the programs of the church), that they should be out witnessing to people much more than they do now so that they can bring even more people to the church programs and services so they can “get saved” and repeat the same process. This is all an agenda to pacify the congregation, to extract money from them through a tithe, enriching the leadership in the process. It is a shame this book was chosen to help individual Christians wrestle with how serious they take their faith in the modern world.
Conclusions
All things being equal, this was a terrible class and an even worse book to read. This is everything that is wrong with Christianity today. That said, it did give me something to rail against, and to clarify my thoughts. So, with that in mind, it served it’s purpose. I would suggest they switch to a different book, one that focuses on actual Sanctification rather than the fluff of carnal evangelical Christianity.
Until my next assignment….
Please consider supporting my writing, my unschooled studies, and my hermitic lifestyle by purchasing one or more of my books. I’m not supported by academia or have a lucrative corporate job – I’m just a mystical modern-day hermit trying to live out the life I believe God has called me to. So, any support you choose to provide is GREATLY appreciated.
Excerpt from Sacred the Circle:
There was a knock at the door.
Campbell got up from the chair and crossed the small distance so he could open it.
A young man stood in the doorway, probably in his early twenties.
Campbell could tell he looked a little disheveled.
Confused.
He had deep rings around his eyes, as if he hadn’t been sleeping much, and he kept checking the hallway in both directions, as if half expecting someone to be stalking him.
“Hey,” Campbell said.
“Uhm….is…this….?”
The kid was stumbling over his own words.
Campbell leaned out into the hallway, checking to make sure there was no one else listening.
This guy wasn’t the only one who was becoming paranoid.
There were two students hanging out at the foyer, near the stairs, but the rest of the floor was clear.
“I’m sorry,” the kid said. “Must be the wrong place. I’m mistaken.”
He started to leave.
“Wait,” Campbell said, putting a hand out. “Hold on a second.”
The kid paused.
“What’s your name?”
“Uh, I’m….Lloyd…”
He fidgeted with his collar.
“I know it sounds crazy, but – ”
“You’re not crazy, Lloyd,” Campbell said, grinning.
“Did you – ? ”
The kid paused, as if unsure if he should continue.
He looked back toward the stairs, then at Campbell.
“Did you know I was coming?” he finally asked. “I mean, that’s not possible, but, were you expecting me?”
Campbell chuckled to himself.
“What’s so funny?” Lloyd asked.
“Well – “
Campbell pushed the door open all the way so Lloyd could see inside his dorm room.
The entire room was full of them, students, non-students, ranging from what looked like eighteen to even a few middle-aged men, scattered about the room, sitting wherever they could find a comfortable spot.
Lloyd’s mouth dropped open.
“I wasn’t really expecting them, either,” Campbell said. “So, I hope you don’t hold it against me when I tell you, I had no idea you’d be showing up here. Do you care to join us, anyway?”
Buy my book Sacred the Circle to find out what these men are hearing from the supernatural realm. Will they answer the questions tugging at them? What are the visions saying? Who are the Multitude? Why are all these men being brought together? By whom? And why, above all else, are they being convicted….to pray?
Get your copy of Sacred the Circle today! Get the upcoming sequel, Sacred the Sent as well so the story never ends !
But, trust me when I say, you’ll be white knuckling this one with every turn of the page!
What do you think?